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My desktop OS: Debian Etch

By Flavio Henrique Araque Gurgel on May 30, 2006 (8:00:00 AM)

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Some people like to work in Linux distributions that are at the cutting edge of technology. Other prefers stability at any cost. I want both, and Debian Testing, codenamed Etch, gives me that. The Debian project's testing tree has up-to-date software along with good stability, since packages are highly tested in the Unstable branch before they move to Testing.

I've been running Linux at home for about two years, having started playing with it about seven years ago. I tried several distributions but settled on Debian because of its fast, consistent, and safe package management system, with more than 15,000 packages available. Debian Stable, a.k.a. Sarge, is maybe the most stable distribution today, but its software packages tend to get old. Etch is appropriate for personal desktops and even some production ones.

To install Etch I started with a running Sarge that I was using for some time. All I needed to do was to edit the file /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the Testing tree, update the kernel to 2.6.12 version, and update the rest of the system. No errors occurred at all. It is possible to install Etch directly from an ISO created daily and available at debian.org.

Debian's hardware support just works. Printing with my Hewlett-Packard PSC1510 works perfectly; HP officially supports linuxprinting.org, and the driver that comes with the package, foomatic-gutenprint, is fast and complete. The new kernel's udev system works well with my USB flash disk.

I do my day-to-day activities in KDE 3.5.2, and I installed some kde-look.org packages for eye candy. Debian developers don't try to make the software look and feel as they want it, but let users do it. Some other distributions include too many customizations, which makes them less familiar to users.

Konqueror loads in a second or two even when my machine is heavily loaded. I can process my documents in an OpenOffice.org 2.0.2 highly optimized by Debian developers. Writer, Calc, and all OOo applications load in less then a second because they are in memory at login time.

Multimedia is a breeze too. MPlayer and its codecs come from Christian Marillat's repository and work flawlessly. You can use packages in the non-free and contrib sessions to play DVDs. My cheap Nvidia GeForce 4 MX4000 display adapter runs fine with the kernel compiled by the Nvidia installer. The "Debian Way" of installing a Nvidia display driver is to compile the nvidia-kernel-source package by hand as documented on debian.org, but it's not in the tree of Etch yet (it is in Sarge), so I installed the manufacturer's supplied driver, which is freely available at nvidia.com. Nvidia's auto configuration for Xorg worked perfectly -- no need to edit manually.

I love music, and Debian gives me the latest version of the Audacity audio recorder and editor. I can encode my production in MP3 format with liblamemp3 (Marillat again). You can rip your music to MP3 format with cdparanoia, watch encoded DVDs with MPlayer, and listen music with XMMS, the open source brother of WinAmp. I burn audio and data CDs with K3b and cdrdao.

When it's time for fun, I turn to the impressive open source Nexuiz deathmatch game. It provides beautiful smooth 3-D effects, high-quality sound, and good playability. It's not in repositories (yet), but it's easy to install -- just unzip and run as a regular user. Wine software allows me to use my Steam account and play Half-Life and Counter-Strike. Wine is a bit tricky to use, but Web documentation is easy to find.

For Web surfing, Debian includes the latest Firefox and flashplugin-nonfree. Sun's Java Runtime Environment (JRE) is included, with the package converted by the excellent make-jpkg and fakeroot utilities. After installation of JRE the package system links the java-plugin and mplayer-mozilla-plugin automatically into Firefox. Everything installed easily.

I use the Thunderbird mail client and Kopete multi messenger for my professional and personal communications. Thunderbird filters the spam of all my mail accounts, since I've trained its intelligent filter. Kopete gives me good compatibility with MSN and ICQ accounts at the same time, in the same screen. Today's version in Etch doesn't give me webcam and voice support, but they are coming in the future releases.

I remotely manage a Linux Terminal Server Project server running in another location using OpenSSH with X tunneling and browsing, using the latest Webmin with Firefox. Webmin is not available in the repository yet, but I had no trouble installing it with Webmin's generic installer.

To edit HTML and PHP files, I use NVU and Quanta Plus. I also have the latest MySQL server up and running to test my PHP applications. It's amazing what a machine with just 512MB can do under Debian despite running so many concurrent processes.

I develop Java code too. I installed the Java SDK using a Debian package made by make-jpkg. After that, the Netbeans development environment installed perfectly and integrated itself with KDE. All I needed to do was to edit the startup script to point to Sun JRE and not to the blackdown-java open source system that is installed with OpenOffice.org.

Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool lets me easily manage application software. I never have broken packages and every apt-get update correctly updates my software to the latest package's version. If APT finds some manually edited file in /etc, the dpkg utility asks me if I want to install the new maintainer version, keep the current one, or check differences. APT provides an automatic backup of my old configuration file if it's replaced.

Debian lets me make choices. All packages come with conservative options and developers' settings. When user intervention is needed upon installation the dpkg system use to explain the options.

Support for Debian is among the most complete you can find in the open source world. Debian is traditionally a distribution of developers that connect with each other and with users via email or IRC. Developers respond to bug reports promptly. Several mailing lists in all supported languages have high traffic and people that like to help. If you're in a hurry, you can join the #debian IRC channel on the freenode network. You can even pay for support if you want to; debian.org has a list of companies that will take your money and answer your questions.

Debian is the most truly community-driven distribution, proud of its GNU name. It supports lots of platforms, and its software quality assurance is excellent. Security flaws are fixed in the Etch repositories quickly. With mirrors all around the world, installation of new packages is quick. Even if any single Linux company disappears, Debian will remain intact -- as my desktop OS.

What desktop OS do you use every day? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $100. (Send us a query first to be sure we haven't already published a story on your favorite OS or have one in hand.) In recent weeks, we've covered SimplyMEPIS, Xandros, Mac OS X, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, White Box Enterprise Linux, Mandriva PowerPack 2006, Slackware, SUSE, GRML, Kanotix, Gentoo, VectorLinux, CentOS, Damn Small Linux, Frugalware, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Arch Linux, and Fedora Core 5.

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on My desktop OS: Debian Etch

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Why Ubuntu?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 06:49 PM
... Debian (Etch) is much more functional and stable and more free and better and more coherent and i could go on.

I liked your review!

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Re:Why Ubuntu?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 07:18 PM
The difference between Ubuntu and Etch is Ubuntu tries to keep a stable distribution not just packages, e.g. making sure versions of Anjuta and Glade match, and making sure all dependencies are covered. Many times Etch fails at this

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Re:Why Ubuntu?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 07:32 PM
>The difference between Ubuntu and Etch is Ubuntu
>tries to keep a stable distribution not just
>packages, e.g. making sure versions of Anjuta and
>Glade match, and making sure all dependencies are
>covered.

Well, then Etch and Ubuntu's releases have the same goal.

>Many times Etch fails at this

And many times Etch succeeds while Ubuntu fails.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-P

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Re:Why Ubuntu?

Posted by: Flavio Henrique Araque Gurgel on May 30, 2006 09:33 PM
Thanks for the compliments about my review.

I don't think people should label Ubuntu or Debian as the best OS. Linux is here for the freedom of choice. Mine was Debian because of its great comunity job and some other things. But it's not the best for everyone.

Ubuntu is feeding back Debian with patches and updates. Ubuntu is always in a hurry to stay on schedule and Debian is released when it's done.
Ubuntu is a trademark of Canonical that sponsors the development and Debian lives from donations.

Canonical wants to create a comunity based distribution but says that today's Ubuntu will remain free forever. Maybe Canonical will support Debian better as a comunity distribution, maybe not.

I'll stay with Debian for now, but everyone is free. Make your choices!

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Re:Why Ubuntu?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 21, 2006 11:15 PM
Hai There,A nice article there!Debian Rocks!Ubuntu is now a small competitor for Etch....

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What a long, strange trip it's been...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 08:26 PM
Etch has come a long way since the Sarge release.

Sarge had gcc 3.3.5, Etch has 4.0.3.
Sarge had XFree86, Etch has Xorg 6.9.
Sarge had kde 3.3.2, Etch has 3.5.2.
Sarge had gnome 2.8.1, Etch has 2.14.1.
Sarge had kernel 2.4.27, Etch has 2.6.15.
Sarge had firefox 1.0.4 and openoffice 1.1.3 while Etch has FF 1.5.0.3 and OO 2.0.1.
And so on...

Yeah, one could really say that Debian has more or less caught up with the lead that other distros once had. It's good to be a Debian user nowadays.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

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Re:What a long, strange trip it's been...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 11:26 PM
Xorg 7.0, mind you

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Nvidia Free?

Posted by: Whoopi_cat on May 30, 2006 09:26 PM
If Stallman's reading theis, he's going to take BIG exception with your description of the Nvidia drivers as "free,"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-> Amazingly to me, I'm getting a little that way myself.

"Once you build a Debian box, it will be yours forever."

Whoopi Cat

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Re:Nvidia Free?

Posted by: Flavio Henrique Araque Gurgel on May 30, 2006 09:42 PM
> If Stallman's reading theis, he's going to take
> BIG exception with your description of the
> Nvidia drivers as "free,"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;->

I didn't say that NVidia driver is free but "freely available" that means you're free to use but not to modify. It's terrible in the Stallman's point of view and I agree with him all the time, but manufacturer's of open sourced drivers (like Intel) sells their display adapters at higher prices then NVidia here in Brazil where I live. So it's a matter of freedom for me to pay less to have good graphic results. At the price of a closed source driver.

> Amazingly to me, I'm getting a little that way
> myself. "Once you build a Debian box, it will
> be yours forever." Whoopi Cat

Thanks for the comments and be happy in your Debian box!

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Re:Nvidia Free?

Posted by: angrykeyboarder on June 02, 2006 07:10 AM
FYI. It' always better to install software in Debian via dpkg/apt.

Here is a workaround to the problem in Etch (or sid when the current modules are behind the current kernel.)

<a href="http://wiki.serios.net/wiki/Debian_NVIDIA_proprietary_display_driver_installation_through_APT" title="serios.net">http://wiki.serios.net/wiki/Debian_NVIDIA_proprie<nobr>t<wbr></nobr> ary_display_driver_installation_through_APT</a serios.net>

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nVidia drivers "the Debian way"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 10:34 PM
Debian's method for installing nVidia drivers from the non-free repository (which is much easier than your article makes it seem) is important because the nVidia.com install script will overwrite important files which the package manager thinks it owns; later upgrades to Xorg may cause those files to be overwritten in turn by apt, which will cause your system to break.

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Re:nVidia drivers "the Debian way"

Posted by: Flavio Henrique Araque Gurgel on May 31, 2006 02:18 AM
> Debian's method for installing nVidia drivers
> from the non-free repository (which is much
> easier than your article makes it seem)

I know it's easy, but as in the article, it's not possible in Etch yet. When I was in Sarge I did it the Debian Way, for sure.

> is important because the nVidia.com install
> script will overwrite important files which
> the package manager thinks it owns; later
> upgrades to Xorg may cause those files to be
> overwritten in turn by apt, which will cause
> your system to break.

Xorg is the default x server in Etch, it will not break. If nvidia-kernel-source become available in Etch all everyone needs to do is uninstall from the NVidia's script and do it the Debian Way.
The only problem of using NVidia's script is that it replaces some GL files by non-free ones. An uninstall by the same script fixes it, if needed later.

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security updates

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2006 11:20 PM
Which one handles security updates better, Sarge, Etch or the latest stable Ubuntu?

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Re:security updates

Posted by: Flavio Henrique Araque Gurgel on May 31, 2006 02:28 AM
> Which one handles security updates better,
> Sarge, Etch or the latest stable Ubuntu?

It's strange to answer this question but based on documents we can say that Ubuntu and Sarge have the most quick updates for security reasons. Etch should be the last just because the security team has to make it faster in sarge (of course) but in the last few months the security team seems to correct security issues on Etch in a day or two, however, for critical applications, go to sarge. It is officially suported and the security team is Excellent. For Desktops, you can go Etch or Ubuntu Breezy. Ubuntu Dapper should be better than Breezy because of the commitment of 5 year support. Anyway, I prefer the comunity Debian style of fixing things.

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Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 02:38 AM
It's great to see a debian review -- so much talk about it's derivatives these days that I'm afraid people are gonna forget about the Big Mama Distro<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:). I've been running debian on servers, laptops and workstations for seven years. Companies rise and fall, the next new thing makes you forget the last new thing, but through all of this debian remains.

I think it's great that the review is about testing and not stable, since many people tend to forget that there are three debian releases: stable, testing and sid. I'm currently writing this on debian sid for amd64, spiced up with the quinn's latest compiz-cvs release.

Debian GNU/Linux for ever!

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Re:Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 08:56 AM
Agreed. I'm usually running the latest Kubuntu, but almost everything you say about Debian Etch/Testing applies to Ubuntu as well. Both are great distros and on the cutting but stable edge of desktop development. Both will detect and install on almost any hardware.

The one thing I really loved to hear: a confirmed Debian afficiando who isn't running Gnome. Both Ubuntu and Debian behave as though KDE did not exist, but if you persevere you can run KDE quite nicely on Debian based distros.

Best of luck,
Collins

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Re:Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 08:25 PM
I'm the one who wote the post to which you responded. I use KDE on debian, and it works great with compiz and gnome-window-decorator. There are guides at compiz.net.

As a matter of fact, KDE has been updated to the most recent version much faster than GNOME has during the last months. From what I read, this is because the debian GNOME package manager is being paid to work on ubuntu all day, and then is too tired (understandably) to go home and work on debian. I think Shuttleworth should be very careful when building his tree-house, so he doesn't saw off the branch he's sitting on.

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Re:Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 01, 2006 08:58 PM
I see a lot of negative attitudes toward Ubuntu among plain Debian folks. It's like the Debian code was free for any derivative work as long as you're not successful.

But a community-OSS-project shouldn't be dependent on a single person, so why is someone hiring the Gnome package maintainer a problem?

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Re:Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 02, 2006 09:26 PM
I think everyone likes what ubuntu is doing, and will acknowledge that it is mostly good for debian and the GNU/Linux community. You shouldn't believe all the grossly exagerated stories about elitist debian developers that are told on the ubuntu forums. But if debian gets weakened, ubuntu will take a hard blow, since it can't exist without debian. So the "we're successful and don't care what you say" ain't all that bright. Better to listen and try to make sure that the ground you're standing on stays sound. This and the problems of the ubuntu/debian relationship is acknowledged by Mark Shuttleworth according to all the latest articles on the issue. It was also an important discussion point at the last debian conference.

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Re:Great to see a Debian review!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 01, 2006 03:03 AM
Huh? KDE is installed by default with the standard desktop Debian installation. And you only need the first Debian installation cd to get Gnome, KDE, and a very nice selection of desktop apps. You get not only the mainstream apps (eg OpenOffice), but in some cases a good alternative is also provided (eg Abiword). All the most popular packages are on the first cd, but you may want to obtain the first 3 or 5 cds if you're on dialup, to lessen the pain of installing extra stuff. If you've been timid about trying Debian, just remember that Ubuntu uses the same installer, it just asks fewer questions. So pretty much the only difference is pressing the return key a few more times to install Debian (the defaults are usually fine).

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Debian is FANTASTIC!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 08:59 PM
Your review is very good, but it would take 5 times as much space to describe all the reasons why Debian is so good. For me the main thing is that Debian is the only big distro out there which is 100% community-centered and 100% comunity-controlled through a sophisticated and powerful democratic system. And the results achieved show this!

I have tried pretty much every distro out there, and after 5 years of Mandrake/Mandriva I switched to Debian 18 months ago. I could never have imagined how much better the distro and, no less importantly, the community behind the distro is (Debian quality control bests anything anywhere in the entire software industry!).

So yes, I will also say:

Debian GNU/Linux forever!

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Fantastic!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 04:11 PM
I'm a debian desktop user; I use the Unstable version! OK, some time there are problems<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P and I don't suggest to use this. Etch is more stable.

As you I use Firefox, Thunderbird, Kopete (I have Webcam support with the unstable branch).
I also use NVidia drivers and I play games like Warcraft 3 and Guild Wars with cedega (is not free).
I also have Neverwinter Nights and Doom 3 (linux native).
I'm very happy of my Debian/unstable!

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Daily Etch Snapshots

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 07:15 PM
Where are they?

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Re:Daily Etch Snapshots

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 31, 2006 07:30 PM
There are weekly snapshots of Etch available.
<a href="http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/" title="debian.org">http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/</a debian.org>
<a href="http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/iso-cd/" title="debian.org">http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i<nobr>3<wbr></nobr> 86/iso-cd/</a debian.org>

And there are also daily builds of the Debian-Installer.
<a href="http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/etch_d-i/current/" title="debian.org">http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/et<nobr>c<wbr></nobr> h_d-i/current/</a debian.org>
<a href="http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/etch_d-i/current/i386/iso-cd/" title="debian.org">http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/et<nobr>c<wbr></nobr> h_d-i/current/i386/iso-cd/</a debian.org>

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The Secret Is Out

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 01, 2006 09:12 AM
The secret is out. Debian Testing (Etch) is the best, most powerful Linux Desktop. No need for other distributions to dress it up. (My appologies to Ubuntu, Mepis, etc.) I agree with this review 100%. Though I'm not a developer, I settled on Debian years ago.

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almost!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 01, 2006 11:03 PM
the only thing missing from Etch is a live-CD version (even Kanotix is Sid-based). I know that there is a team working on an 'official' live-CD and I cannot wait until this finally come out!

Debian rulz!

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Re:almost!

Posted by: sfritsche on June 02, 2006 01:05 PM
This page includes download links to the Debian Live CD *.iso:

<a href="http://live.debian.net/" title="debian.net">http://live.debian.net/</a debian.net>

Unfortunately, it only lists the i386 arch at the moment. Also, it looks like the default desktop is KDE, which may or may not be your cup of tea.

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So Ubuntu DID HELP DEBIAN?!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 02, 2006 08:22 PM
I looked at the <a href="http://live.debian.net/wiki/" title="debian.net">http://live.debian.net/wiki/</a debian.net> and look what I came across:

Key technologies discussed so far previde a modified ubuntu's Casper to implement initramfs generation and boot time configuration of readonly rootfs (squashfs and ext2) made readable by a unions (unionfs) with a ramdisk or customizable writable fs. Isolinux/syslinux was choosed as Bootloader and cdebootstrap as the tool to produce the rootfs.

So some Ubuntu products DID find their way back to Debian!

Good.

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Re:almost!

Posted by: sfritsche on June 03, 2006 07:13 AM
Yes, I'm replying to my own post and that's poor form, but I need to make two corrections.

First, following the download link above will, eventually, lead you to directories for builds dated 20060527 and 20060531. The latter contains only the i386 build. The former contains builds for other architectures, including AMD64 which I have run successfully on my desktop system at home.

Second, the earlier build is available with either GNOME or KDE desktop environment. The KDE *.iso I tried boots directly to the desktop.

Sorry for the oversight.

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Re:The Secret Is Out

Posted by: angrykeyboarder on June 02, 2006 07:02 AM
Etch is good until you try to upgrade a package and can't because it's stuck in testing. It's stuck there because even though it will work just fine in your architecture (e.g. i386, amd64) it won't compile on MIPS, m68k, commodore 64, or i8088.....

That sent me to K/Ubuntu.

Ubuntu - Debian like it should be.

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I don't agree...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 02, 2006 04:02 PM
"The Debian project's testing tree has up-to-date software along with good stability, since packages are highly tested in the Unstable branch before they move to Testing."

The 10 days delay without bugs (when priority is set to low, it's even shorter for higher priorities) before moving from Unstable to Testing is a little short in my opinion to speak about "highly tested" packages in Etch.

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Etch 4 nerds

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 17, 2006 03:37 PM
I have used Linux at home for seven years, read Slashdot in ten years, and even bought a propeller head. To be sure, I am a nerd. But, I have never tested Debian. Why?

Because, I wasn't aware of the semi-stable testing branch, currently named Etch. In my world Debian was Unstable (2.6.x) or Stable (2.4.x) with nothing in between. In my world, the Unstable, was not as unstable as other distro's stable, but still unstable. In my world, the Stable was so stable it didn't really move forward, sort of 2.4.x with bugfixes.

So, in my world, Debian needs some glory. Some spokesmen. This article did it for me. I will now try Debian!

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Re:Etch4 nerds

Posted by: Yagotta B. Kidding on June 18, 2006 10:13 PM

Same for me.


Lastly, I bought a decent AMD rig with Nvidia and stuff, to deploy Debian Etch on.


I find RHEL/CentOS/WBL worth every minute I spent working on them; there are truly some consulting gigs where you'd better speak Hat.



As for SUSE, noone who hasn't tried it yet should consider himself a Linux guru; and they seem to move fast--probably the fastest of all distros.



But the City of Munich made its decision in favor of Debian even if they have SUSE within easy reach (it is only a short drive from Munich to Nuremberg); and even if their contractors all can Red Hat. Why on Earth Debian?



Munich is going to migrate 20,000 to 40,000 workstations and servers within the decade. They need a Linux flavour with TTL of 10..20 years. SUSE/Slackware comes close, RHEL is a quality distribution as well. But they have chosen Debian because of its community which consists of such personalities as "Mr. Knoppix" Klaus Knopper, "Mr. Kanotix" Jörg 'Kano' Schirottke, "Mr. (K)Ubuntu" Mark Shuttleworth, and many others--too many to mention.



Yours,

YBK

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