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Feature: Desktop Software
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
By Jeremy LaCroix
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August 30, 2008 (2:00:00 PM)
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CommentsKDE 4.1, released last month, brought a great number of improvements to the popular desktop environment. It's the best desktop I've ever used -- but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. 2009 will see the release of KDE 4.2. Here are 10 features that would be great additions to a future KDE release that I hope the developers will consider.
Easier theme installation
One of the things I love most about the GNOME desktop is how easy it is to install new themes for it. Typically all you need to do is drag and drop a new theme into the configuration dialog and it's ready to be used.
KDE 4 has a nifty way of installing new Plasma themes by integrating the configuration with the KDE-Look Web site. As it stands currently, for window borders and system themes, you must download packages from your distribution's repositories or compile new themes yourself. In future versions, perhaps there could be a link that allows you to install themes directly from KDE-Look, similar to the way you can install new Plasma themes.
Automatically pause desktop effects while 3-D or full-screen apps run
The desktop effects in KDE 4 are top-notch, and offer all sorts of effects from transparency to wobbling windows. If you're a gamer, you may notice that some 3-D games take a performance hit when desktop effects are enabled, unless of course you have a video card with tons of video RAM. It can be difficult to balance desktop effects in a way that doesn't affect the frame rates of computer games.
It would be nice if KDE could recognize when desktop effects aren't needed and pause them temporarily to allow the resources on a system's video card to be dedicated to a tasks that need them more. For example, if you launch a full-screen 3-D game, desktop effects aren't needed while the game is running. In that instance, desktop effects should be paused until the program has closed. Even if you are running a 3-D game that isn't full screen in an active window, desktop effects may still hamper performance, so they should be disabled while it's running.
I submitted this idea to the KDE developers some time ago, but it wasn't implemented in KDE 4.1.
More Plasmoids in the online installer
In the newest release of KDE, you can install Plasmoids by clicking "Install new widgets" from within the Add Widgets menu. Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only one Plasmoid, PicoNet, is available to install. I would like to see more Plasmoids added to this menu, so users can avoid having to download one from KDE-Look and compile it themselves.
Include an RSS newsreader Plasmoid by default
In early builds of KDE 4, an RSS newsreader Plasmoid was included in Playground alongside the news ticker Plasmoid. Unfortunately, in my install of KDE 4.1, this app is nowhere to be found, not even in my distribution's repositories. The RSS newsreader is similar to the news ticker, but it organizes the news headings in a better way by putting each heading into a list. It would be great if the RSS newsreader again became a part of the default KDE 4 install.
Grid for organizing Plasmoids
If you have quite a few Plasmoids on your desktop, getting them all lined up can be time-consuming. A checkerboard grid that appears when you move or resize a Plasmoid to help you line it up with other Plasmoids would make organizing your desktop apps a cinch.
List applications in the kickoff menu by name
The current way of listing applications in the KDE 4.1 kickoff menu is difficult to understand at times. Applications are alphabetized in the menu by description, rather than the name of the app. For example, if you wanted to launch Firefox, you would normally look for it alphabetically under "F." Since the applications are listed by the description, you'd have to look for Firefox under "W" for "Web Browser - Firefox" instead.
The KDE 3 series ordered applications similarly, but you could configure it to sort the applications by the name, which is a great deal more convenient. I'd like this configuration option to return to KDE 4. Until then, the only way to change the ordering that I know of is to use KMenuEdit to organize the applications menu yourself, which can take some time. I submitted this idea to the KDE bug database, but this feature has not yet been implemented.
Customize favorite applications list
With KDE 4's kickoff menu, you can add applications to a favorites list for easier access, but I have found no way to organize this list, other than to remove all of the icons and then re-add them in the order you want them. I'd like to see a function that allows you to drag and drop the icons in a different order, or even include this ability in KMenuEdit to allow you to customize it there. This is a very minor complaint.
Separate wallpapers for each virtual desktop
I haven't found a way to display a different wallpaper for each virtual desktop. When I started using Linux in 2001 or so, this feature was common, as it helped differentiate each desktop. I would like to see it return to KDE.
Hiding and autohiding the panel
While this feature was already suggested to the developers, I'm including it here because it must be one of the most requested features to return in KDE 4. In the KDE 3 series and below you could click on an arrow to hide the panel, or even make it autohide when not being used. I'd like to see the ability to hide a panel make a comeback.
Make KDE faster
Finally, I'd like to see more work done in speeding up KDE. KDE 4.1 already is a fast and efficient desktop, and the KDE developers have done a great deal already in this regard. However, there's always room for improvement, since the less RAM needed to run KDE, the more people that would be able to run it.
As it is, the KDE desktop is already wonderful and full-featured. The amount of innovation that the developers were able to squeeze into the latest release is amazing, and I'm looking forward to future versions. If you have great ideas of your own for improvements, consider getting involved with the KDE project, and propose your ideas to the developers.
Jeremy LaCroix is an IT technician who writes in his free time.
Comments
on Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.177.37.128] on September 02, 2008 08:29 AM
I have to agree. I'm using KDE 4.1 and Ark isn't in a usable state. I'd also like an Ark integration with file manager. In KDE 3.5 you could just right-click and extract an archive.
The only thing I'm waiting for is K3b being ported to KDE 4 and Amarok 2 becoming stable. Then KDE 4 will be perfect for me. Oh yeah and I'm wating for NVIDIA to fix their drivers which do a very poor job at accelerating KDE 4, but since these are not open source KDE developers can do very little about it.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.178.168.198] on August 30, 2008 03:00 PM
autohiding the panel -------------> in the list for kde 4.2, nearly done
Separate wallpapers for each virtual desktop -------------------> in the list for kde 4.2, nearly done.
Separate wallpapers for each virtual desktop -------------------> in the list for kde 4.2, nearly done.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 193.179.202.174] on September 01, 2008 12:45 PM
So it's super.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 90.41.186.170] on August 30, 2008 03:03 PM
Hiding and autohiding the panel : ith this [http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/08/panel-authohide.html] post, it's look like, it will be shipped in kde 4.2
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.50] on August 30, 2008 03:03 PM
Working keyboard shortcuts. Most important thing to add.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.18.1.36] on September 01, 2008 04:32 PM
+1 (more like +1000 if possible :)
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.74.207.42] on August 30, 2008 03:26 PM
1) Quit whining about nVidia, use non-buggy functions
2) Have a user-friendly developer attitude
3) Finish your HIG for gods's sake.
2) Have a user-friendly developer attitude
3) Finish your HIG for gods's sake.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.52.174.5] on August 30, 2008 03:48 PM
1) So only because one hardware company can't get their drivers right the entire Linux desktop and user interface should not advance and be behind in technology. Doesn't make any sense. Maybe that's why other toolkits/desktops are falling behind because they are to afrai to push the envelope.
2) This depends on the individual developer. Out of several 100s of developers there are sure a few that are hard to approach but a huge majority is nice to work with. And keep in mind that it also depends on how you approach the developer.
3) If I remeber this is being worked on constantly but it takes time and can't be finished over night or else the job would be done poorly. I'm sure the KDE HIG team would appreciate any help to get this done faster.
2) This depends on the individual developer. Out of several 100s of developers there are sure a few that are hard to approach but a huge majority is nice to work with. And keep in mind that it also depends on how you approach the developer.
3) If I remeber this is being worked on constantly but it takes time and can't be finished over night or else the job would be done poorly. I'm sure the KDE HIG team would appreciate any help to get this done faster.
Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.62.100.49] on September 02, 2008 08:05 AM
Sorry but I must agree with 1) with the comment previous to yours...
Compiz works GREAT on NVidia hardware, ah how come? well they detect if they are working on Intel, ATI, NVidia etc and probably tweak some behaviour after that. It took some time, compiz and beryl used to be buggy, but now they are quit stable. And before you start with the excuses:
- Yes NVidia should publish Open Source drivers, BUT that is no excuse to make things work with their current proprietary drivers which have been the best available for Linux 3D for a while.
- And have you noticed that Intel's drives, even being open sourced, have still problems? (some cards can't have textures big enough for the desktop cube or some other effects, etc) so again the Open Source complaint, although legitimate, is no excuse for poor driver usage.
- And again, why the Open Source project named Compiz can do it and KDE's KWin cannot? Shouldn't they build on Compiz (ah! no! its too GNOMish for the KDE guys, isn't it?)
I was a KDE user up to KDE 3.5.8 or 9, but I got tired of lagging behind GNOME because KDE 4 was the developers main focus and 3.5 was being a little abandoned; Compiz not very well integrated, k3b started to burn my CDs badly (usually had to do 2 to get one good), firefox 3 had some problems within Kubuntu look and feels, etc. Still Konqueror is way better than Nautilus and Konsole is more flexible than Terminal, but I still can use them from Ubuntu (yes, without the K)..
Dolphin you say? why do I need to have 2 canvas at each side of the files (which are the real important thing) taking space for DOING NOTHING, don't you know the eee revolution means you do not always have screen space to spare?
If Qt 4 was going to give a 25% performance boost, why does KDE 4 (yes even 4.1) feel like you are running Vista?
Will we have to wait for KDE 4.5 to start thinking of a switch back to KDE?
The Gnome guys will probably thank the KDE team for KDE4... but the users won't because the Gnome-KDE competition kept the GUIs improving while if KDE lags behind or takes the Vista-like route the Gnome guys will probably start get too relaxed and the GUIs will stop evolving at the same rate they were a few years ago... so MACOSX and Windows future improvements will be more difficult to reach or surpass.
Compiz works GREAT on NVidia hardware, ah how come? well they detect if they are working on Intel, ATI, NVidia etc and probably tweak some behaviour after that. It took some time, compiz and beryl used to be buggy, but now they are quit stable. And before you start with the excuses:
- Yes NVidia should publish Open Source drivers, BUT that is no excuse to make things work with their current proprietary drivers which have been the best available for Linux 3D for a while.
- And have you noticed that Intel's drives, even being open sourced, have still problems? (some cards can't have textures big enough for the desktop cube or some other effects, etc) so again the Open Source complaint, although legitimate, is no excuse for poor driver usage.
- And again, why the Open Source project named Compiz can do it and KDE's KWin cannot? Shouldn't they build on Compiz (ah! no! its too GNOMish for the KDE guys, isn't it?)
I was a KDE user up to KDE 3.5.8 or 9, but I got tired of lagging behind GNOME because KDE 4 was the developers main focus and 3.5 was being a little abandoned; Compiz not very well integrated, k3b started to burn my CDs badly (usually had to do 2 to get one good), firefox 3 had some problems within Kubuntu look and feels, etc. Still Konqueror is way better than Nautilus and Konsole is more flexible than Terminal, but I still can use them from Ubuntu (yes, without the K)..
Dolphin you say? why do I need to have 2 canvas at each side of the files (which are the real important thing) taking space for DOING NOTHING, don't you know the eee revolution means you do not always have screen space to spare?
If Qt 4 was going to give a 25% performance boost, why does KDE 4 (yes even 4.1) feel like you are running Vista?
Will we have to wait for KDE 4.5 to start thinking of a switch back to KDE?
The Gnome guys will probably thank the KDE team for KDE4... but the users won't because the Gnome-KDE competition kept the GUIs improving while if KDE lags behind or takes the Vista-like route the Gnome guys will probably start get too relaxed and the GUIs will stop evolving at the same rate they were a few years ago... so MACOSX and Windows future improvements will be more difficult to reach or surpass.
Re(2): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 78.45.81.84] on September 04, 2008 07:02 AM
> And again, why the Open Source project named Compiz can do it and KDE's KWin cannot?
Because, sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with Compiz or KWin, this is about Qt4. KWin works fine with nvidia too, and KDE4 with Compiz would be still slow on affected nvidia cards. Next time please agree only with things you understand and don't need to ask about, thank you.
Because, sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about. This has nothing to do with Compiz or KWin, this is about Qt4. KWin works fine with nvidia too, and KDE4 with Compiz would be still slow on affected nvidia cards. Next time please agree only with things you understand and don't need to ask about, thank you.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.126] on September 04, 2008 04:26 AM
Actually talking to nVidia really helped the bugs were issues on their side and AFAIK have been fixed in the latest beta version of the drivers.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 86.17.95.16] on August 30, 2008 04:21 PM
Someone to tell me what the fuck a Plasmoid is.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.114.180.85] on August 30, 2008 04:56 PM
Haven't you heard? It's the hottest new thing since sliced bread or browser tabs.
Most people have files and shortcuts in their desktop, well in KDE4 you have these nifty widgets focused on desktop usability like an analog clock, calendar, rss reader or the infamous twitter client Aseigo uses so much. I bet you've seen them in every kde4 desktop screenshot; all reviewers are crazy about filling their desktop with plasmoids..
Most people have files and shortcuts in their desktop, well in KDE4 you have these nifty widgets focused on desktop usability like an analog clock, calendar, rss reader or the infamous twitter client Aseigo uses so much. I bet you've seen them in every kde4 desktop screenshot; all reviewers are crazy about filling their desktop with plasmoids..
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 91.108.184.67] on August 31, 2008 06:33 PM
a widget as named by a marketing department
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 127.0.0.1] on August 30, 2008 04:51 PM
ADULT supervision. Restore the concept that form follows function
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 117.193.33.47] on August 30, 2008 06:51 PM
When anyone says that, they usually get into Form Follows Fiasco...
Mostly, form seems to follow whatever its creator wants it to follow
Mostly, form seems to follow whatever its creator wants it to follow
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 62.174.233.85] on August 30, 2008 05:03 PM
My wishlist:
- make a decent network manager
- make session manager work the way it should
- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
- make it easier to edit the panel properties
- more intuitive dragging of plasmoids
- must be forgetting something, but you get my drift.
- make a decent network manager
- make session manager work the way it should
- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
- make it easier to edit the panel properties
- more intuitive dragging of plasmoids
- must be forgetting something, but you get my drift.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.231.41.29] on August 30, 2008 08:19 PM
- make a decent network manager
This is not the KDE developers work, if you mean the GUI frontend for networkmanager there is already one in progress.
- make session manager work the way it should
For me it works as good as in KDE3
- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
Remote desktop (server and client) is already ported.
I am not sure, but I think it's the same with kvpnc.
For personal file server you can use Kepas.
Kdewebdev is under porting progress.
Kpowersave is under porting progress.
- make it easier to edit the panel properties
Are you using KDE 4.0.x?
This is not the KDE developers work, if you mean the GUI frontend for networkmanager there is already one in progress.
- make session manager work the way it should
For me it works as good as in KDE3
- port nifty KDE3 apps such as remote desktop (server and client), kvpnc, personal file server, kdewebdev(!), kpowersave(!!!) to KDE4
Remote desktop (server and client) is already ported.
I am not sure, but I think it's the same with kvpnc.
For personal file server you can use Kepas.
Kdewebdev is under porting progress.
Kpowersave is under porting progress.
- make it easier to edit the panel properties
Are you using KDE 4.0.x?
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.75.214.48] on August 30, 2008 05:04 PM
>>In future versions, perhaps there could be a link that allows you to install themes directly from KDE-Look, similar to the way you can install new Plasma themes.
>>Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only one Plasmoid, PicoNet, is available to install.
>>Include an RSS newsreader Plasmoid by default
These are already available in the rawhide repository of Fedora and I suspect other distros as well. Which means when the next Fedora release which will actually be the one that uses KDE 4.1 is released it will have these.
As for the memory I just looked at what is eating memory on my system and KDE is eating almost none of it. Fire fox which isn't a KDE application is eating 25% on it's own. I'm not hacking on Firefox as I really like their application. I just think the author should be sure he knows what is using up his memory before posting. Also be aware that memory management in Linux is different than it is in Windows.
>>Unfortunately, at the time of this writing, only one Plasmoid, PicoNet, is available to install.
>>Include an RSS newsreader Plasmoid by default
These are already available in the rawhide repository of Fedora and I suspect other distros as well. Which means when the next Fedora release which will actually be the one that uses KDE 4.1 is released it will have these.
As for the memory I just looked at what is eating memory on my system and KDE is eating almost none of it. Fire fox which isn't a KDE application is eating 25% on it's own. I'm not hacking on Firefox as I really like their application. I just think the author should be sure he knows what is using up his memory before posting. Also be aware that memory management in Linux is different than it is in Windows.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.68.123] on September 08, 2008 12:05 AM
Sorry, but your comment is completely wrong:
* No, you cannot install Qt widget styles, KWin window decorations and most plasmoids though KHotNewStuff. Not in Fedora, nor in any other distribution. This is technically impossible, as those themes/plasmoids are compiled C++ code and must be compiled for the particular distribution, so your distribution's repository is the proper place to distribute them. (A few of them are already in Fedora's repository, and more stuff, like Lancelot, is being packaged.) Only plasmoids entirely written in an interpreted scripting language and Plasma themes (which are SVG only, no code) can be installed through KHotNewStuff, compiled stuff can't and probably never will.
* Fedora doesn't ship any plasmoids which aren't part of KDE 4.1 in its kdebase-workspace and kdeplasma-addons packages. Other stuff belongs to separate packages, and there is currently no package for the RSS newsreader. Whoever wants it in Fedora will have to package it and submit it for review.
* You do not have to wait for Fedora 10 to get KDE 4.1, it is available as an update for Fedora 9. (Well, it will be available for all users in a couple days, when the repositories with the new signing key are finally available.)
-- Kevin Kofler
* No, you cannot install Qt widget styles, KWin window decorations and most plasmoids though KHotNewStuff. Not in Fedora, nor in any other distribution. This is technically impossible, as those themes/plasmoids are compiled C++ code and must be compiled for the particular distribution, so your distribution's repository is the proper place to distribute them. (A few of them are already in Fedora's repository, and more stuff, like Lancelot, is being packaged.) Only plasmoids entirely written in an interpreted scripting language and Plasma themes (which are SVG only, no code) can be installed through KHotNewStuff, compiled stuff can't and probably never will.
* Fedora doesn't ship any plasmoids which aren't part of KDE 4.1 in its kdebase-workspace and kdeplasma-addons packages. Other stuff belongs to separate packages, and there is currently no package for the RSS newsreader. Whoever wants it in Fedora will have to package it and submit it for review.
* You do not have to wait for Fedora 10 to get KDE 4.1, it is available as an update for Fedora 9. (Well, it will be available for all users in a couple days, when the repositories with the new signing key are finally available.)
-- Kevin Kofler
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 124.106.181.94] on August 30, 2008 05:30 PM
> Easier theme installation
This is true, if only partly true. Comparing KDE's "theme" system to Gnome's is not really that accurate, considering that they don't really refer to exactly the same thing. What you are actually installing when you install a "theme" in Gnome is really just a tarball containing color schemes, pixmaps for window decorations or widgets, etc. On the other hand, what is usually called as a "theme" in KDE-Look (actually it's a misnomer) are widget "styles" and window decorations. They are not simply themes but engines or plugins. So you are really installing a program, not simply slapping on some config files or color settings.
So when you are installing a "style/theme" in KDE, you are actually installing a new widget engine, or a new window decoration plugin. In contrast, in Gnome, you are really just changing the settings of whatever GTK+ engine is being used. Try having to add a new GTK+ engine that isn't installed yet. You will undoubtedly have to use packages or compile them. And in the case of the window decoration, Metacity is built to be themeable using just pixmaps and that's that. All this would be functionally equivalent to having something like Domino or QtCurve installed as your widget style and deKorator as your window decoration. In that case, you'll be able to just drag and drop "themes" (which are basically just config files and/or pixmaps) to theme them.
- Jucato
This is true, if only partly true. Comparing KDE's "theme" system to Gnome's is not really that accurate, considering that they don't really refer to exactly the same thing. What you are actually installing when you install a "theme" in Gnome is really just a tarball containing color schemes, pixmaps for window decorations or widgets, etc. On the other hand, what is usually called as a "theme" in KDE-Look (actually it's a misnomer) are widget "styles" and window decorations. They are not simply themes but engines or plugins. So you are really installing a program, not simply slapping on some config files or color settings.
So when you are installing a "style/theme" in KDE, you are actually installing a new widget engine, or a new window decoration plugin. In contrast, in Gnome, you are really just changing the settings of whatever GTK+ engine is being used. Try having to add a new GTK+ engine that isn't installed yet. You will undoubtedly have to use packages or compile them. And in the case of the window decoration, Metacity is built to be themeable using just pixmaps and that's that. All this would be functionally equivalent to having something like Domino or QtCurve installed as your widget style and deKorator as your window decoration. In that case, you'll be able to just drag and drop "themes" (which are basically just config files and/or pixmaps) to theme them.
- Jucato
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 78.32.53.65] on August 30, 2008 06:19 PM
all the suggestions in the article are excellent in my opinion. I too am eagerly anticipating amarok 2 and koffice 2, but neither of those are technically 'improvements for kde 4.2', to be honest.
Good article, I really really, REALLY hope that all these are implemented - it would simply be fantastic, and make kde4 the undisputed king of the DE, if it isn't already!
Good article, I really really, REALLY hope that all these are implemented - it would simply be fantastic, and make kde4 the undisputed king of the DE, if it isn't already!
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.180.197.47] on August 30, 2008 07:59 PM
the biggest improvement that can be made is to forget the 4.xx of KDE and just continue improving the 3.5 version. I quite frankly cant stand Gnome and now the new KDE is also in that category. I say if the current developers of KDE insist on the current path (which is obvious that they are) it is time that KDE be forked. I for one will continue using the 3.5 version while I explore the lighter weight desktops, after all ones desktop experience is a matter of personal taste unless you are still a slave to Windoze and for me KDE 4 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 89.123.157.32] on August 31, 2008 03:12 PM
I'm still using KDE 3.5, I find 4.1 too unpolished for me. Still, I watch the news and, from time to try, even try the latest betas, to see the progress. I have faith that the community which created Kde 3.5 will be able to polish Kde 4 and make it a good replacement for my current desktop. Remember: nobody forces you to upgrade! I'm already using a lot of KDE 4 apps, they work just fine in Kde 3
Windows-menu "Cascade" and "Unclutter"
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.15.176.4] on August 30, 2008 08:15 PM
I *really* wish the Windows-menu "Unclutter" and "Cascade" items were user-configurable, or at least not hard-coded to be at the top of the menu. When accidentally triggered (which happens!), they are *absolutely* *DISASTROUS* for a carefully-set-up multi-variable GIS display configuration on a 3600x2400-virtual/1920x1200-physical display!!!!
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 130.243.149.140] on August 30, 2008 08:36 PM
the most annoying things in KDE 4.1 for me are:
- keyboard shortcuts that do not work
- network manager that can't work with manually edited conf files and can't establish ad-hoc connection
- keyboard shortcuts that do not work
- network manager that can't work with manually edited conf files and can't establish ad-hoc connection
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.44.9] on August 31, 2008 02:37 PM
network manager that can't work with manually edited conf files and can't establish ad-hoc connection
While this is not KDE related and therefore lighlty offtopic, version 0.7 of NetworkManager can do that. I am not sure if it has been released yet, however some distributions are shipping it already.
While this is not KDE related and therefore lighlty offtopic, version 0.7 of NetworkManager can do that. I am not sure if it has been released yet, however some distributions are shipping it already.
Who currently is writing all the plasmoids? I was just wondering if there was a way to get more individual developers involved in that, instead of laying all the burden on the KDE team. The most ideal situation would be something like we have with Firefox where individual developers code the extensions and the main website makes the packages available for download.
In all probabilty, the KDE teams are already working toward something like that.
In all probabilty, the KDE teams are already working toward something like that.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 98.180.212.88] on August 30, 2008 09:57 PM
pico is the only one thats for kde4.1
there was more when i was using 4.0
so its not the kde deveopers faults, its the plasmoid developers fault, they need to upgrade
there was more when i was using 4.0
so its not the kde deveopers faults, its the plasmoid developers fault, they need to upgrade
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.208.74.190] on August 30, 2008 10:52 PM
Keyboard shortcuts....keyboard shortcuts....
How in the world can a window/desktop manager exist in 2008 without keyboard shortcuts? How is it possible that we've gotten to 4.1 without them?
Let's face it: the KDE 4.XX project is the work of arrogant and myopic developers who are so full of themselves that they've forgotten about usability.
And try now to respond with the standard stuff about it being free and them not being paid. If all volunteer and service people took the attitude that they were somehow better than the rest of us because they do things for nothing, there'd be no such thing as volunteerism and service.
Plasmoids? So what. All the eye candy in the world cannot compensate for lack of function and usability.
The XFCE desktop that I switched to after having used KDE from 3.0 through 3.5.9 is more functional in a thousand ways than KDE 4.1.
I'm looking forward, though, to KDE 5.0. I assume that it will hold the promise of teleporting users to the moon....of wait...not 5.0...that will be beta...it will be real in 5.1....no 5.2...no, 5.3...
How in the world can a window/desktop manager exist in 2008 without keyboard shortcuts? How is it possible that we've gotten to 4.1 without them?
Let's face it: the KDE 4.XX project is the work of arrogant and myopic developers who are so full of themselves that they've forgotten about usability.
And try now to respond with the standard stuff about it being free and them not being paid. If all volunteer and service people took the attitude that they were somehow better than the rest of us because they do things for nothing, there'd be no such thing as volunteerism and service.
Plasmoids? So what. All the eye candy in the world cannot compensate for lack of function and usability.
The XFCE desktop that I switched to after having used KDE from 3.0 through 3.5.9 is more functional in a thousand ways than KDE 4.1.
I'm looking forward, though, to KDE 5.0. I assume that it will hold the promise of teleporting users to the moon....of wait...not 5.0...that will be beta...it will be real in 5.1....no 5.2...no, 5.3...
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 12:02 AM
I agree. Linux is destined to be stuck as a tinker toy for developers unless developers stop jerking themselves off as to how they can make ever more desktop features transparent, wobble or whatever other 'eye candy' can they waste the users computing resources on. Linux is good as a server because you don't need to deal with this nonsense. XFCE will be my desktop of choice when I ever upgrade from RH 7.3. Simple, functional, clean, efficient. It does what it's supposed to do without hoopla, or trying to impress me or prove something. I run a Desktop Environment to manage the other programs I WANT to run, not to just sit and marvel at the 'experience'. OH, there's another OS where you're supposed to sit and marvel at it before you even begin the tasks you turned the computer on in the first place for. I think that's an MS one. You know, the one where they think users don't use their computers to run apps, but just "experience" the OS to pass time. They also have the same idea of forcing users to want what THEY want the users to want. I.e., we know whats good for you, so even though your comfortable with this paradigm, WE shall decide what you should want. I thought Linux was different, which is why I originally switched.
Here's a hint. People log into or turn their computers on either to play games, surf the net, write e-mails, calculate stuff, do some kind of task or something. The Desktop Environment is merely incidental to that.
I, like nearly all other computer users don't run my PC for the express purposes of running KDE or developing KDE desktop plasmoids. I run KDE (at the moment 3.1 on my machine) as a means of launching other programs and switching between them. The DE is merely incidental, it definately should NOT be slowing my games down, as this article hinted at.
But if you tell developers what users need, they don't like it. If we did what was actually best for the users, what would actually bring them from MS rubbish, developers wouldn't be able to show of their leet effects like wobbling windows (WTF?) to users who really don't care after them after 40 minutes anyway.
Thankfully projects like IceWM, fluxbox, FVWM and XFCE exist. If I was a windows user now considering Linux, I'd be far less likely to switch, as it seems many of MS's faults have trasnferred over to the GNU/Linux world.
I'd like to see Linux succeed, but developers for apps, and especially apps like KDE which most users will think IS Linux, need to be mindful of the users requirements of their COMPUTER and not just the DE.
It seems people forget, that 99% of people interact with the DE ONLY to start programs, and switch between them. They are not intrested in managing icons or plasmoids, and nor should they be. They didn't turn their PC on to do that. They turned it on to start Doom 3 or Firefox or OOCalc (or Excel) or publishing software. The DE should do what any good software should do, and understand it's place.
Here's a hint. People log into or turn their computers on either to play games, surf the net, write e-mails, calculate stuff, do some kind of task or something. The Desktop Environment is merely incidental to that.
I, like nearly all other computer users don't run my PC for the express purposes of running KDE or developing KDE desktop plasmoids. I run KDE (at the moment 3.1 on my machine) as a means of launching other programs and switching between them. The DE is merely incidental, it definately should NOT be slowing my games down, as this article hinted at.
But if you tell developers what users need, they don't like it. If we did what was actually best for the users, what would actually bring them from MS rubbish, developers wouldn't be able to show of their leet effects like wobbling windows (WTF?) to users who really don't care after them after 40 minutes anyway.
Thankfully projects like IceWM, fluxbox, FVWM and XFCE exist. If I was a windows user now considering Linux, I'd be far less likely to switch, as it seems many of MS's faults have trasnferred over to the GNU/Linux world.
I'd like to see Linux succeed, but developers for apps, and especially apps like KDE which most users will think IS Linux, need to be mindful of the users requirements of their COMPUTER and not just the DE.
It seems people forget, that 99% of people interact with the DE ONLY to start programs, and switch between them. They are not intrested in managing icons or plasmoids, and nor should they be. They didn't turn their PC on to do that. They turned it on to start Doom 3 or Firefox or OOCalc (or Excel) or publishing software. The DE should do what any good software should do, and understand it's place.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.103.3.138] on September 02, 2008 04:55 AM
1. Press Alt+F2
2. systemsettings
3. Click "Keyboard & Mouse"
4. Click "Keyboard Shortcuts"
5. Realize that you're a dumbass.
2. systemsettings
3. Click "Keyboard & Mouse"
4. Click "Keyboard Shortcuts"
5. Realize that you're a dumbass.
Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.1.50] on September 02, 2008 09:18 AM
Err... no! You have no idea what you are talking about.
In konqueror some shortcuts don't work all the time - ctrl + for changing font size for example sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ctrl - w to close tabs ditto.
In Akregator, keyboard shortcuts don't work at all.
editing the kmenu and adding a short cut for launching a program doesn't work. (try it!)
there are open bugs on all of these.
also many applications (dolphin, konqueror etc) don't register their shortcuts in 'keyboard shortcuts' - it would be good to have a centralised point for editing them all.
so go away and come back when you have done your homework.
In konqueror some shortcuts don't work all the time - ctrl + for changing font size for example sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ctrl - w to close tabs ditto.
In Akregator, keyboard shortcuts don't work at all.
editing the kmenu and adding a short cut for launching a program doesn't work. (try it!)
there are open bugs on all of these.
also many applications (dolphin, konqueror etc) don't register their shortcuts in 'keyboard shortcuts' - it would be good to have a centralised point for editing them all.
so go away and come back when you have done your homework.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 128.141.226.78] on August 30, 2008 11:39 PM
I totally agree with the last comment added, actually XFCE gives me everything i want in a very fast and functional way (Also gnome), in addition they are written in C, i don't understand how KDE4 was released adding a lot of fancy stuff and misses a lot of BASIC features.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 65.1.210.96] on August 31, 2008 12:11 AM
I'd like to see a complete set of icons. When I tried 4.1 half my icons were a rectangle with a question mark. Even stuff like menu categories.
I'm also disappointed at the lack of configurability in the desktop effects. After using compiz fusion, kwin4 seems very constrained. That goes for most of KDE4, though. I may just be dense, but I have trouble just getting things the color I want them to be. Based on the screenshots I'm seeing, most people seem to have similar problems (or else, everyone just loves a black kicker panel).
I'm also disappointed at the lack of configurability in the desktop effects. After using compiz fusion, kwin4 seems very constrained. That goes for most of KDE4, though. I may just be dense, but I have trouble just getting things the color I want them to be. Based on the screenshots I'm seeing, most people seem to have similar problems (or else, everyone just loves a black kicker panel).
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.131.176.23] on August 31, 2008 12:28 AM
Seems to me from some of the comments that what people want from KDE 4.2 is: feature completeness. Releasing this thing half-baked was not a good idea, despite the FOSS notion of "release early, release often". That works for small stand alone components. That doesn't work with components which are critical such as the entire desktop environment. There's a reason commercial companies use something called "beta testing". I for one am not touching KDE 4.x until it's "feature complete" and most of the bugs are worked out. I expect that will be somewhere around release 4.5.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.62.100.49] on September 02, 2008 08:38 AM
I have to disagree... The problem is precisely that they have abandoned the FOSS way:
They didn't release soon you know? YES, IT WAS HALF BAKED but they were SO late that they could not possibly delay the release for the hundred time in a row, it would be way to much Windowish like for their audience.
The problem is they thought it was a good idea to rewrite everything from scratch based on the Qt4 migration. Do you realize what will happen to Linux if Linus and the kernel developers decided that sort of thing? Linux would probably disappear in a few years.
I am also a developer, I understand there is a real temptation to rewrite your stuff now that you are "cleverer that when you wrote that piece of code", but time tells you its a BAD idea most of the time (unless the task is short and straightforward or your software was really a bad crap that really does not payoff to maintain) because...
- It takes too much time.
- Sometimes you realize you were not as cleverer as you thought.
- And many times you miss real features that you should have taken into account while 'wasting' your developer time.
Gnome could also improve in many ways, but there's one thing they got right, stable release cycles that had allowed them to move away from CORBA and being the first to reach DBus (before KDE) without a major rewrite, for example. Yes, the Kioslaves of the kde 3.x series kicked Nautilus' ass hands down every time, but now KDE comes with this dolphin in their "want to be like (crapy) Vista" new attitude. Konqueror used to be my filebrowser, NOT my web client (for which I use firefox), dolphin is just a bad copy of Nautilus and/or windows folder views bad ideas.
The same goes for the Linux kernel, evolutionary design allows them to switch the kernel scheduler, memory management in the 2.6 series with users noticing just improvements instead major havoc and delays...
They didn't release soon you know? YES, IT WAS HALF BAKED but they were SO late that they could not possibly delay the release for the hundred time in a row, it would be way to much Windowish like for their audience.
The problem is they thought it was a good idea to rewrite everything from scratch based on the Qt4 migration. Do you realize what will happen to Linux if Linus and the kernel developers decided that sort of thing? Linux would probably disappear in a few years.
I am also a developer, I understand there is a real temptation to rewrite your stuff now that you are "cleverer that when you wrote that piece of code", but time tells you its a BAD idea most of the time (unless the task is short and straightforward or your software was really a bad crap that really does not payoff to maintain) because...
- It takes too much time.
- Sometimes you realize you were not as cleverer as you thought.
- And many times you miss real features that you should have taken into account while 'wasting' your developer time.
Gnome could also improve in many ways, but there's one thing they got right, stable release cycles that had allowed them to move away from CORBA and being the first to reach DBus (before KDE) without a major rewrite, for example. Yes, the Kioslaves of the kde 3.x series kicked Nautilus' ass hands down every time, but now KDE comes with this dolphin in their "want to be like (crapy) Vista" new attitude. Konqueror used to be my filebrowser, NOT my web client (for which I use firefox), dolphin is just a bad copy of Nautilus and/or windows folder views bad ideas.
The same goes for the Linux kernel, evolutionary design allows them to switch the kernel scheduler, memory management in the 2.6 series with users noticing just improvements instead major havoc and delays...
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 58.106.215.47] on August 31, 2008 01:30 AM
Only having to select shutdown once!
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.118.186.107] on August 31, 2008 01:31 AM
My wish is for the "fork KDE!" whiners to quit posting pointless drivel and offer useful suggestions, or downgrade to 3.5
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 213.47.44.9] on August 31, 2008 02:33 PM
My wish is for the "fork KDE!" whiners to quit posting pointless drivel and offer useful suggestions
Well, my wish regarding this would be that they ask the two dozend of talented developers with plenty of free time and the several equally sized groups of non-coding contributors they obvouisly have available for developing a fork to consider applying for KDE SVN accounts.
I have to admit that I am quite puzzled that there would be such a large group of Free Software loving folk not yet contributing to any Free Software project, but if it takes a fork of KDE 3.5 to finally get them involved, go for it!
Well, my wish regarding this would be that they ask the two dozend of talented developers with plenty of free time and the several equally sized groups of non-coding contributors they obvouisly have available for developing a fork to consider applying for KDE SVN accounts.
I have to admit that I am quite puzzled that there would be such a large group of Free Software loving folk not yet contributing to any Free Software project, but if it takes a fork of KDE 3.5 to finally get them involved, go for it!
Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 12:11 AM
There are a lot of free software folk who simply want free software to succeed and giving developers less that subtle hints as to how to achieve that.
So I don't write code, but I've admined the computer systems for a large company and understand what users want. Sometimes, feedback is more important than code.
KDE 3.x is an excellent DE. It isn't lack of code which is KDE 4's problem (in my opinion) but rather lack of focus, or lack of an understanding as to what a DE really SHOULD be, and what the vast majority of users (and not just the luser type) actually need.
Companies pay big money for that kind of information. I contribute to the OSS community by contributing what I think is sorely missing. An udnerstanding of the user base, of what the target audience wants (the unconverted to Linux), and what most peoples frustrations with computers are. (my job is dealing with this).
Address these issues and Linux will soar.
So I don't write code, but I've admined the computer systems for a large company and understand what users want. Sometimes, feedback is more important than code.
KDE 3.x is an excellent DE. It isn't lack of code which is KDE 4's problem (in my opinion) but rather lack of focus, or lack of an understanding as to what a DE really SHOULD be, and what the vast majority of users (and not just the luser type) actually need.
Companies pay big money for that kind of information. I contribute to the OSS community by contributing what I think is sorely missing. An udnerstanding of the user base, of what the target audience wants (the unconverted to Linux), and what most peoples frustrations with computers are. (my job is dealing with this).
Address these issues and Linux will soar.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 125.63.159.29] on August 31, 2008 04:42 AM
I'm new to KDE, but I've really enjoyed using it so far - especially how well the KDE apps are integrated.
When I read about KDE 4, I was looking forward to it, despite the controversy... to me, any time a development team focuses on making the code tighter and more efficient - that's the way to go. Keep making improvements and make KDE as light and efficient as possible!
When I read about KDE 4, I was looking forward to it, despite the controversy... to me, any time a development team focuses on making the code tighter and more efficient - that's the way to go. Keep making improvements and make KDE as light and efficient as possible!
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.54.19.246] on August 31, 2008 05:09 AM
The article has all good points. Can't help but mention though that one thing that really irks me about GNOME is how you have to either download themes, or hack config files just to configure the colour settings. What GNOME (and KDE4 too for that matter!) needs is a colour configuration dialog like KDE 3.5 has, where you get a representation of a desktop with a window on it where you click on the part of the representation you want to change the colour of, and then you select the colour you want that bit to be. Not this pull down menu of element names and no preview of your choices without hitting apply. KDE4 isn't nearly as terrible as GNOME in this regard, but it's a whole lot worse than KDE3.
Keyboard shortcuts!!! Cannot stress enough how aggravating shortcuts that just plain don't work are.
POLISH!! KDE 4.1 is still utterly rough around the edges. Panel (system tray moreso) icons are almost universally hideous, practically every one has a seriously ugly background surrounding it, they do not blend into the panel at all. You can shrink the panels smaller than KDE will render the icons on it. Polish the damn thing already.
If I select Shutdown, or Logout, or Reboot off of the Kmenu, don't ask me again if I want to Shutdown Reboot or Logoff in some retarded extra dialog.
Feature completeness (or lack thereof) is a major reason I'm still using KDE3. I want to be using KDE4 but it's still just too rough and beta quality for me.
If I'm harsh it's out of love.
Keyboard shortcuts!!! Cannot stress enough how aggravating shortcuts that just plain don't work are.
POLISH!! KDE 4.1 is still utterly rough around the edges. Panel (system tray moreso) icons are almost universally hideous, practically every one has a seriously ugly background surrounding it, they do not blend into the panel at all. You can shrink the panels smaller than KDE will render the icons on it. Polish the damn thing already.
If I select Shutdown, or Logout, or Reboot off of the Kmenu, don't ask me again if I want to Shutdown Reboot or Logoff in some retarded extra dialog.
Feature completeness (or lack thereof) is a major reason I'm still using KDE3. I want to be using KDE4 but it's still just too rough and beta quality for me.
If I'm harsh it's out of love.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.29.103.199] on August 31, 2008 07:53 AM
To go to the shutdown dialog quickly, press Ctrl-Alt-Del. That's one of the few keyboard shortcuts that actually works in KDE 4.1.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.177.64.119] on August 31, 2008 08:43 AM
I would still like to see the capability to have different icons on each virtual desktop. By default of course it would place each new icon on all virtual desktops, but there should be an option when choosing to create a new icon to place it on the virtual desktop of your choice, and the option for it to be on all desktops.
The ultimate best improvement for KDE would be to get rid of all existing KDE code and import the source code of Gnome.
Seriously guys, what are you thinking? Everything KDE does, Gnome does ten times better. It even looks way better. KDE is obsolete and no amount of wishful thinking will ever make it relevant again.
Seriously guys, what are you thinking? Everything KDE does, Gnome does ten times better. It even looks way better. KDE is obsolete and no amount of wishful thinking will ever make it relevant again.
Everything Gnome does, KDE does ten times better! See how easy it was to type that? That doesn't necessarily make it true though... Some of us prefer KDE over Gnome, and some of us actually like KDE4 and the way it is shaping up! You really should learn to respect that not everyone think the same, and what you personally love might be what others hate... (That doesn't mean I don't like Gnome, just that I like KDE) To each his own! Take care.
Gnome does so better that all its userbase uses k3b to burn CDs, uses digikam to manage their photos and uses amarok to manage their music library....LOL
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.79.162.226] on August 31, 2008 09:56 AM
"automatically pause desktop effects while 3-D or full-screen apps run"
This has been fixed, you should actualy read the two last comments of your bugreport ;-)
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155581
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165237
This has been fixed, you should actualy read the two last comments of your bugreport ;-)
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155581
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165237
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 218.214.133.12] on August 31, 2008 12:11 PM
Auto-hide needs to be "very-fast" or "very-configurable", slow is an absolute "-pain-" ie: the usual default speed for auto hide is almost unusable...!
Wish list: The Improvement for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 81.157.7.247] on August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
Easy peasy Lemon squeasy dump the 4.x series and get back to working on KDE 3.5.9 at least that is working correctly and reliably
then confine 4.x to the Alpha status that it is right now may be classable as beta by the time it reaches 4.7 or 8
then confine 4.x to the Alpha status that it is right now may be classable as beta by the time it reaches 4.7 or 8
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 93.112.117.172] on August 31, 2008 12:48 PM
Do you guys remember when GNOME went 2.0? Everyone hated it! It only became usable around 2.16, but now its a joy to use. I imagine the same think will happen with kde4.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 70.80.227.162] on August 31, 2008 01:57 PM
- Better multi-head support (for instance, the ability to move the application list bar to other screens was laking in 4.0)
- Usability improvements to network manager would also be nice
- Usability improvements to network manager would also be nice
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 85.166.143.187] on August 31, 2008 02:27 PM
give us back desktop icons!
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 80.200.9.181] on August 31, 2008 02:41 PM
I mis the quicklauncher from KDE3.
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.69.18.213] on August 31, 2008 03:20 PM
1. Drag to select multiple desktop icons. This should be a given.
2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.
3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.
4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.
5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?
6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.
KDE shows some nice touches and is very promising indeed. Right now, it provides lots of barriers for users to learn the environment, find their apps and configure their system. Dolphin is a massive leap forward, but it's not all good. Sorting out 2, 3 and 4 would improve things hugely IMO.
2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.
3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.
4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.
5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?
6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.
KDE shows some nice touches and is very promising indeed. Right now, it provides lots of barriers for users to learn the environment, find their apps and configure their system. Dolphin is a massive leap forward, but it's not all good. Sorting out 2, 3 and 4 would improve things hugely IMO.
Re(1): Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 68.34.107.67] on August 31, 2008 04:10 PM
1. Drag to select multiple desktop icons. This should be a given.
* If you're using the Folder View plasmoid, this can be done. Set it to your desktop folder and be happy.
2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.
* Right click the k-menu icon and select "switch to classic menu". Your widgets must be unlocked to see this menu option
3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.
* Its a distro issue. Kubuntu, for example, puts most apps in the first level of each category, with overflow going into a second level.
4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.
* I'm fine with the unified System Settings control. Having not used SuSE, I'm tempted to say that this is a distro issue.
5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?
* If you upgraded from 3.5, itd keep your file associations. If not, I'd hazard a guess that its your distro.
6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.
* That's a bug with the freedesktop.org icon specification - KDE 4 icons are ARGB, while fd.org icons are RGB. There are messy hacks to fix this on the KDE end (instead of upstream in fd.org where they belong), and the community is trying to decide where to take it.
* If you're using the Folder View plasmoid, this can be done. Set it to your desktop folder and be happy.
2. Have an alternative to the Kickoff menu. *Personally* I think it's ugly and terrible to use - scrolling within a fixed sized menu is about the worst Vista feature they could've copied. Simple menus like Gnome are what I want.
* Right click the k-menu icon and select "switch to classic menu". Your widgets must be unlocked to see this menu option
3. Stop burying applications many levels deep in the menus. This might be one for the distros, but the way OpenSUSE organises apps, for instance, is frankly ridiculous.
* Its a distro issue. Kubuntu, for example, puts most apps in the first level of each category, with overflow going into a second level.
4. Have one place to find all the preferences for the whole system. This has always been a problem in KDE for me. One preferences app for KDE and one for the rest of the system, but I never know which to go to.
* I'm fine with the unified System Settings control. Having not used SuSE, I'm tempted to say that this is a distro issue.
5. I thought everything was Dolphin now, so how come the first icon I clicked launched the dreaded Konqueror to look at my files?
* If you upgraded from 3.5, itd keep your file associations. If not, I'd hazard a guess that its your distro.
6. Improve the icons on the panel. This is just fit & finish, but some of them even have a square white background. It's a shame when so much effort has gone into the overall look.
* That's a bug with the freedesktop.org icon specification - KDE 4 icons are ARGB, while fd.org icons are RGB. There are messy hacks to fix this on the KDE end (instead of upstream in fd.org where they belong), and the community is trying to decide where to take it.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.57.172.213] on August 31, 2008 03:04 PM
For me there are certain apps that don't go in the right direction with their concept of usability:
- Konsole. Maybe a copy-mode split view is good for some concrete situations, but allowing both views to be independent makes more sense for me. There's a simple example of a good splitting system, allowing to have multiple tabs in each view, and switching from horizontal to vertical split, for example. It's called notepad++.
- Akregator. I started this wish http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122179 and for me it's a very good idea. It should be already working, but it's not. Why?
- Dolphin. Comparing the places system to the left folder filtering at konqueror it may look similar, but there's no link between current/closer place and the treeview. I can't believe that. This is one of the most impressive features in konqueror by far. You can focus on the subset of folders that you want, and you don't need to have visible a big-like-hell tree for the whole filesystem. Why this is not possible with dolphin??
And on the other side, why there's only a single split mode? What about allowing users to split each view as many times as (s)he wants? A very common situation is having the user organizing its files, and having more than 2 views is a good help many times. In the end we must remember what dolphin is: a file manager, so it would be nice for the user to manage files easier.
- Plasma. More types of panel would be interesting. Depending on your desktop layout sometimes you won't have enough with common side panels, so having other different types allowing you to add apps icons/launchers wherever in the middle of the desktop sounds great. The default desktop-panel-widget also has a very poor set of config options (no hiding, no transparency..).
A plasma manager allowing the user to load/save configs also looks great. You may want to switch from work mode to tv mode, for example, and this may simplify this task a lot.
And this is also related to a feature a posted previously: a visual map of plasmoids. If I want to modify a config I need to know which elements are in, and exactly where. Having a visual and simplified way to show plasmoids (only like plain boxes, using different colors for each one, for example) may deal with this. Of course right there you could add/remove/move/config plasmoids.
- Kickoff. Right now it autoswitchs tab once you keep the mouse over a new one for certain time. Why? I think forcing the user to click on it is not a problem, it's a good idea. Why do I have to "be careful" about the place where I keep the mouse pointer? Suddenly the tab changes, and I was not expecting this. Why??
- Amarok. Well.. everyone keeps waiting for v2 :)
- Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not been updated for some time, at least its concept. You may be able to use different background images for your virtual desktops (it seems a missing feature in 4.1), but in the end you only have a set of copies of your desktop. Why should I have the same set of panels or plasmoid config in every desktop? I could have a panel with certain development tools available in desktop 1, assuming it is my work desktop. For #2 we can think about the watch-tv desktop, so probably i will have a black background, and almost no more panels (I want to see the film and no more.. maybe we could keep there a desktop switcher), and so on. Imho this is and impressive advance for the multidesktop system (this should need more memory, i know.. but what about the usability benefits? In the end the user should be the one who should decide to use it or not, depending on his/hers needs and the amount of available memory).
- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like.
Regards
- Konsole. Maybe a copy-mode split view is good for some concrete situations, but allowing both views to be independent makes more sense for me. There's a simple example of a good splitting system, allowing to have multiple tabs in each view, and switching from horizontal to vertical split, for example. It's called notepad++.
- Akregator. I started this wish http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122179 and for me it's a very good idea. It should be already working, but it's not. Why?
- Dolphin. Comparing the places system to the left folder filtering at konqueror it may look similar, but there's no link between current/closer place and the treeview. I can't believe that. This is one of the most impressive features in konqueror by far. You can focus on the subset of folders that you want, and you don't need to have visible a big-like-hell tree for the whole filesystem. Why this is not possible with dolphin??
And on the other side, why there's only a single split mode? What about allowing users to split each view as many times as (s)he wants? A very common situation is having the user organizing its files, and having more than 2 views is a good help many times. In the end we must remember what dolphin is: a file manager, so it would be nice for the user to manage files easier.
- Plasma. More types of panel would be interesting. Depending on your desktop layout sometimes you won't have enough with common side panels, so having other different types allowing you to add apps icons/launchers wherever in the middle of the desktop sounds great. The default desktop-panel-widget also has a very poor set of config options (no hiding, no transparency..).
A plasma manager allowing the user to load/save configs also looks great. You may want to switch from work mode to tv mode, for example, and this may simplify this task a lot.
And this is also related to a feature a posted previously: a visual map of plasmoids. If I want to modify a config I need to know which elements are in, and exactly where. Having a visual and simplified way to show plasmoids (only like plain boxes, using different colors for each one, for example) may deal with this. Of course right there you could add/remove/move/config plasmoids.
- Kickoff. Right now it autoswitchs tab once you keep the mouse over a new one for certain time. Why? I think forcing the user to click on it is not a problem, it's a good idea. Why do I have to "be careful" about the place where I keep the mouse pointer? Suddenly the tab changes, and I was not expecting this. Why??
- Amarok. Well.. everyone keeps waiting for v2 :)
- Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not been updated for some time, at least its concept. You may be able to use different background images for your virtual desktops (it seems a missing feature in 4.1), but in the end you only have a set of copies of your desktop. Why should I have the same set of panels or plasmoid config in every desktop? I could have a panel with certain development tools available in desktop 1, assuming it is my work desktop. For #2 we can think about the watch-tv desktop, so probably i will have a black background, and almost no more panels (I want to see the film and no more.. maybe we could keep there a desktop switcher), and so on. Imho this is and impressive advance for the multidesktop system (this should need more memory, i know.. but what about the usability benefits? In the end the user should be the one who should decide to use it or not, depending on his/hers needs and the amount of available memory).
- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like.
Regards
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 210.56.88.74] on August 31, 2008 03:20 PM
Polish. Little things like being able to change the font size on the time and seeing the date/day as a tooltip, adding launchers to a panel (how do you do this?), choosing a font color that actually allows an application dragged onto the desktop (not intuitive in itself) to be read by humans with a dark background, why must it show that menu so quickly for EVERY plasmoid (even the launchers), adding a system monitor that can monitor network traffic/memory/CPU for the panel, move the items in the panel with middle-click + drag, etc.
Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons.
KDE 4 seems like it's got some promise to be a good desktop environment though. Some of the settings management involving the internet and single clicks really is very well done. In my opinion it is the initial phase of how do I do stuff with my new desktop that is the most putting off.
Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons.
KDE 4 seems like it's got some promise to be a good desktop environment though. Some of the settings management involving the internet and single clicks really is very well done. In my opinion it is the initial phase of how do I do stuff with my new desktop that is the most putting off.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 69.68.125.47] on August 31, 2008 03:30 PM
Scoop up all the 3.5.x fork whiners and drop 'em off on a remote island.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.253.178.254] on August 31, 2008 04:15 PM
I've tried kde4.1 but came back to kde3.5 because of speed.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 83.79.162.226] on August 31, 2008 04:32 PM
"Kickoff. Right now it autoswitchs tab once you keep the mouse over a new one for certain time. Why? I think forcing the user to click on it is not a problem, it's a good idea. Why do I have to "be careful" about the place where I keep the mouse pointer? Suddenly the tab changes, and I was not expecting this. Why??"
go into the kickoff preferences and change it. It's realy easy.
"Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not bee..."
This is present since kde 4.0, it's called activity or something. There is that strange symbol on the desktop. You can zoom out with it, add a new activity and zoom into that. There you have individual plasmoids for each workspace
"- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like."
there are somthing like 4-5 different ALT-TAB effects from which you can chose from. Take the one you like(you can simply select another, right there where you choose the different Effects in the kwin preferences). If there is none that you like, make a wishlist item on bugs.kde.org. Probably mockup of the effect will be the best way to go.
"Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons."
This is present in svn and will be in 4.2
go into the kickoff preferences and change it. It's realy easy.
"Multidesktop system. Here we are with a feature that has not bee..."
This is present since kde 4.0, it's called activity or something. There is that strange symbol on the desktop. You can zoom out with it, add a new activity and zoom into that. There you have individual plasmoids for each workspace
"- Window management. I don't want to start a fight between kwin and compiz visual effects here, but some simple actions look veeeery poor in 4.1. Simply think about how the alt-tab window looks like."
there are somthing like 4-5 different ALT-TAB effects from which you can chose from. Take the one you like(you can simply select another, right there where you choose the different Effects in the kwin preferences). If there is none that you like, make a wishlist item on bugs.kde.org. Probably mockup of the effect will be the best way to go.
"Also, it would be really nice if the developers could introduce an option for interacting with the desktop as a folder (the whole thing) with icons."
This is present in svn and will be in 4.2
I was a long time GNOME user, but it started to consume to much CPU. I switched to XFce and it is a very useful desktop and resource conservative as long as you don't load GNOME apps or Firefox. But XFce is GTK. However, I thought it loaded KDE apps quickly. I do a lot of MP3 editing with Kid3 and Amarok is my mp3 db player of choice. KDE 4 doesn't have these as native apps yet.
KDE 4.1 is a step forward in desktop for me, but I can't find a stable distro for it. I now use KDE 3.5.9 and will probably use this series until KDE 4 catches up. Funny how things work out. KDE is better at resources than GNOME and has more to offer than XFce. Yes, KDE 4 needs more functionality, but it is a BEAUTIFUL desktop and I would like to run it. I do use Okular and Ktorrent which are KDE 4 apps.
KDE 4.1 is a step forward in desktop for me, but I can't find a stable distro for it. I now use KDE 3.5.9 and will probably use this series until KDE 4 catches up. Funny how things work out. KDE is better at resources than GNOME and has more to offer than XFce. Yes, KDE 4 needs more functionality, but it is a BEAUTIFUL desktop and I would like to run it. I do use Okular and Ktorrent which are KDE 4 apps.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 200.107.58.161] on August 31, 2008 11:27 PM
IMO the best desktop feature is unique to Gnome- you can re-arrange the order of the windows in the task menu by dragging. I can't live without it now after discovering it one day by accident. Any other WM or desktop that does this?
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 212.187.194.74] on September 01, 2008 12:17 AM
Unfortunately not, I'm a KDE user, but I hate not being able to drag items on the taskbar, it bothers me a lot that My web browser isn;t always at the left (I always open it first but after a crash if I reopen it it's on the right)
Kinda obsessive in my case, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who want or need this
Kinda obsessive in my case, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who want or need this
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 212.187.194.74] on September 01, 2008 12:12 AM
As for the fact that only one plasmoid is available for installationg from the "Ad Widgets" -> "From Internet..." dialog, that is because no-one is uploading scripted plasmoids to KDE-look yet, all of the official KDE developers are putting their plasmoids into the default set or "kdeplasma-addons", which should be available as a package for your distro, it is on Kubuntu, and contains an RSS reader.
Right now though there's not much documentation on scripting plasmoids (only C++ instructioncs so far, and python bindings aren't working properly in 4.1), but when this is fixed there illprobably be many more available.
A problem I can think of is that installing from KDE-look might install programs you can't run (due to not having Python/Ruby installed or not having the KDE bindings for these languages), so I'm hoping there will be a little "Python + PyKDE required for this plasmoid" in the dialog if you don't have it installed.
Right now though there's not much documentation on scripting plasmoids (only C++ instructioncs so far, and python bindings aren't working properly in 4.1), but when this is fixed there illprobably be many more available.
A problem I can think of is that installing from KDE-look might install programs you can't run (due to not having Python/Ruby installed or not having the KDE bindings for these languages), so I'm hoping there will be a little "Python + PyKDE required for this plasmoid" in the dialog if you don't have it installed.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 122.52.141.15] on September 01, 2008 02:27 AM
KDE 4.x's goal of the desktop experience is impressive, a noble one. The comment of "Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186]" on September 01, 2008 12:02 AM, were mostly I agree with. You will enjoy only the DE after several hours of playing, after that, you will forget it or change themes, eyecandys etc. After all, you still need your work to get done(surf, docs, publishing, audio/video/graphics/3d Games) and the Desktop Experience _MUST_ _NOT_ interfere and the resources be made available for this in the top priority. Forget about Desktop effects, the audio/video/graphics/3d games MUST work as intended by the developers regardless of the DE.
Another problem is the versioning system of KDE, it's totally unacceptable to release the so-called stable version but half-baked. At least the beta releases must be ALPHA and must be for developers only, it even can't show the kmenu. And the current STABLE be labeled as BETA, in this way, users will not whine for its unstableness, unpolished and the lack of usability and all of you KDE developers's reasoning are totally VALID by saying, "IT IS BETA". Even most distros see the KDE 4.x as a preview technology to which I think they see KDE4 as not ready for production, even though you say its stable.
The weird thing is the slogan: "Don't look back..." But I keep on looking back at Gnome everytime I tried KDE 4.x a run.
God bless...
Another problem is the versioning system of KDE, it's totally unacceptable to release the so-called stable version but half-baked. At least the beta releases must be ALPHA and must be for developers only, it even can't show the kmenu. And the current STABLE be labeled as BETA, in this way, users will not whine for its unstableness, unpolished and the lack of usability and all of you KDE developers's reasoning are totally VALID by saying, "IT IS BETA". Even most distros see the KDE 4.x as a preview technology to which I think they see KDE4 as not ready for production, even though you say its stable.
The weird thing is the slogan: "Don't look back..." But I keep on looking back at Gnome everytime I tried KDE 4.x a run.
God bless...
Re: Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.40.186] on September 01, 2008 05:21 AM
KDE should not be trying to compete with Vista, but hold itself at arms length. Most people who will want the "Vista Experience" will use Windows, rather than Linux, as windows is the 'real deal'. Why make the OS look like another without the same capabilities? In other words, why would someone use an OS which is becoming more and more like Windows (and not be able to run this and that) instead of just running windows and be able run counter strike, etc?
KDE 3.x and GNOME 1.x were desktops which provided an easy to use environment without the trappings of Windows. It is the fact that Linux GUI's follow a different paradigm, which make them attractive and make Linux attractive. Being small, practical, powerful and out of the way, leaving more resources for YOUR stuff. A DE that doesn't harange the user or appear to 'needy'. Being able to get away from an ever shifting DE and ever increasing requirements and use software which is focused on the task it exists to solve, rather than use software which was written to be marketable.
KDE 4 is nice to play with, but to work with it offers nothing new. In fact, probably less than previous DEs.
By the way, I would really like to have seen a 'Kuake' style dropdown console. There are quake like dropdown console addons for KDE, where you press a hotkey combination and get a bash prompt drop down. Also, greater control over windows (AfterStep has maximize 80%, maximise 100%, Quit, Kill, etc). Old version of Gnome, or was it sawfish has "Destroy" to forcible kill an app that was misbehaving. Thats not in KDE ( Little things like this set Linux apart from windows) or even GNOME anymore. KDE does have the CTRL-ALT-ESC : destroy mechanism. Most of all, better intergration with existing Unix apps. Being able to use 'talk' to chat to other uses. KDE 3 did this, but room for improvement. Being able to shedule a job using "at" just by clicking on the calendar or clock or check the start menu for defunct entries or be easily able to script your own basic dialog boxes to do simple tasks.
KDE 3.x and GNOME 1.x were desktops which provided an easy to use environment without the trappings of Windows. It is the fact that Linux GUI's follow a different paradigm, which make them attractive and make Linux attractive. Being small, practical, powerful and out of the way, leaving more resources for YOUR stuff. A DE that doesn't harange the user or appear to 'needy'. Being able to get away from an ever shifting DE and ever increasing requirements and use software which is focused on the task it exists to solve, rather than use software which was written to be marketable.
KDE 4 is nice to play with, but to work with it offers nothing new. In fact, probably less than previous DEs.
By the way, I would really like to have seen a 'Kuake' style dropdown console. There are quake like dropdown console addons for KDE, where you press a hotkey combination and get a bash prompt drop down. Also, greater control over windows (AfterStep has maximize 80%, maximise 100%, Quit, Kill, etc). Old version of Gnome, or was it sawfish has "Destroy" to forcible kill an app that was misbehaving. Thats not in KDE ( Little things like this set Linux apart from windows) or even GNOME anymore. KDE does have the CTRL-ALT-ESC : destroy mechanism. Most of all, better intergration with existing Unix apps. Being able to use 'talk' to chat to other uses. KDE 3 did this, but room for improvement. Being able to shedule a job using "at" just by clicking on the calendar or clock or check the start menu for defunct entries or be easily able to script your own basic dialog boxes to do simple tasks.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 66.176.86.115] on September 01, 2008 04:02 AM
1. Make it at least as stable as KDE 3.5. 4.1 is more stable than 4.0 was, but that's not saying much. Things still crash too much for me to use KDE 4 as an everyday destkop. KDE 4.1 is still not nearly as stable as KDE 3.5 is.
2. Port KNetworkManager to KDE 4.
3. When I hit my laptop's volume up or volume down buttons, KDE 4.1 brings up the KDE 3.5 version of kmix.
4. Some of the plasmoids don't work at all. Others have graphical artifacts and/or font size and placement problems.
I expect at least as good of an experience as I currently have on KDE 3.5. Until I get that I am not going to use KDE4 even though it is currently installed on my computer.
2. Port KNetworkManager to KDE 4.
3. When I hit my laptop's volume up or volume down buttons, KDE 4.1 brings up the KDE 3.5 version of kmix.
4. Some of the plasmoids don't work at all. Others have graphical artifacts and/or font size and placement problems.
I expect at least as good of an experience as I currently have on KDE 3.5. Until I get that I am not going to use KDE4 even though it is currently installed on my computer.
Wish list: 10 improvements for KDE 4.2
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 77.120.128.157] on August 30, 2008 02:44 PM#