Linux.com

Feature: Office Software

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

By Bruce Byfield on December 19, 2007 (9:00:00 PM)

Share    Print    Comments   

In the recent accusations that the GNOME Foundation has been supporting Microsoft's OOXML format at the expense of ODF, KDE has been presented as a counter-example. Based on a KDE News article, Richard Stallman suggested that "major KDE developers" had announced "their rejection of OOXML" and urged GNOME to do the same. More recently, a widely linked story on ITWire used the same article to declare that KDE has taken a "principled stand" against OOXML. However, if you go the source, the story is more nuanced than these claims suggest.

True, KOffice -- not KDE, which is a separate project -- will not be implementing OOXML in a hurry, and part of the reason is political. However, the decision is also a practical one, and KOffice has not rejected the possibility of supporting OOXML in the future.

David Faure has been a KDE developer for nine years, and a KOffice developer almost as long. He has worked on Konqueror, KDesktop, and many of the KDE core libraries. In KOffice, he has focused mainly on the KWord word processor. In addition, Faure has sat on the OASIS technical committee for ODF since 2003, where he represents KOffice's concerns, and helped steer through modifications required by KWord, such as support for frames repeated on each page and a desktop publishing mode.

Few developers, you may safely say, are stronger advocates of ODF than Faure. Speaking unofficially for his fellow KOffice developers, Faure says, "What we like about it is that it was designed from the start to be independent of the design of the application, like HTML or XML. It is also based on many existing standards."

By contrast, Faure is scathing about OOXML. "Microsoft is pretending to everyone that they have an open format. What they want is to convince companies and governments that their format is open, so people will use the format in the future. But in reality, as you can see in many postings on the Web and on blogs about the technical problems with that format, OOXML is just as closed as [Microsoft's previous binary] format." He says that the complexities of the format mean that only Microsoft Office is ever likely to be able to implement it completely, adding bluntly, "It's all just make-believe."

Yet, despite these strong opinions, in talking about the decision not to support OOXML, Faure says, "The main reason is not political. The main reason is lack of resources."

Faure explains that, for the past year, all of the project's energies have been devoted to KOffice 2.0, a massive rewriting of the entire office suite. "That means that support for other formats comes later," he says. "We need first to have a working application before we can import files."

Under these circumstances, trying to develop support for OOXML would be almost impossible. "It is a very complex format," Faure says. "Its type of XML is almost as complex as the old binary format. And with the old format, the old .DOC format, we only ever managed to get to the point where we could import text and its formatting, but not images." Besides, he says that he has seen "a large number of deficiencies" in OOXML, leading him to conclude that "it will be very difficult to implement. We might start at some point, but who knows when we would finish?"

That said, contrary to the impression left by many media reports, KOffice has not ruled out eventually supporting OOXML. "But it has to come from user demand," he says, noting that user demand was why KOffice tried to support earlier Microsoft formats. "I haven't seen many user requests for OOXML just yet. It would be completely illogical for us to work on that format right now just because Microsoft says it is the future and before users demand it."

At the same time, Faure admits that these practical concerns have "a good political side effect. If we had good support for [OOXML] now, it would be an impetus for people to switch to that format. And that's exactly what we don't want to happen. So you could say that it's a political game for us. By not starting that format just yet, we try to make people switch to ODF, because that's a much better format for the future.

"If Microsoft really wanted to do something open, something good for people, it would switch to ODF and help extend it for whatever they need instead of trying to do their own thing, which defeats the purpose of having one standard. The whole idea failed when Microsoft decided to stay in its own game instead of joining us. That's my main regret in all of this, and I hope that more and more people support ODF instead."

Faure is only one developer, and does not officially speak for the entire KOffice team. However, he is a prominent one, and a recent blog entry by Cyrille Berger, another KOffice developer, shows that that he is not alone in his views.

KOffice developers like Faure and Berger deserve credit for balancing practical and political concerns in the middle of the OOXML controversy. Moreover, Faure in particular, has worked five years to improve the ODF standard. In both these ways, KOffice in general stands in marked contrast to the GNOME Foundation, which has ignored the politics of the issue in favor of the practical by rushing to support OOXML after only recently become involved with the development of office format standards.

However, neither of these comparisons justifies the idea that KOffice -- let alone KDE -- has shown a high-mindedness that GNOME lacks. In fact, the idea seems a distortion of at least some of the opinions prevalent among KOffice developers.

Both KOffice and GNOME have been navigating the same shoal-ridden waters. The difference is that KOffice -- perhaps because of greater knowledge due to Faure's involvement with OASIS -- has managed to avoid running aground, the way that GNOME appears to have done.

Bruce Byfield is a computer journalist who writes regularly for Linux.com.

Share    Print    Comments   

Comments

on KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.139.140.203] on December 20, 2007 02:02 AM
Unlike ODF, OOXML is not even a standard. The Gnome people are dopes for supporting it. I'll never understand why these supposed open source groups are getting behind the OOXML. "Get the facts!"

#

Re: KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 116.14.118.35] on December 20, 2007 09:15 AM
Wasn't Miguel de Icaza (the head GNOME) a Microsoft fanboi from way back? I ecall reading he'd tried numerous times to get hired on by them. Maybe he's still hoping?

#

Support for KWord in ODF

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 69.17.112.32] on December 20, 2007 06:46 AM
Faure's comments about getting frames and a desktop publishing mode supported in ODF are a distinct contrast from the OOXML's fanboys claim that ODF is simply a dump of the StarOffice format. One of the things that interest me about KWord is the support for frames and DTP mode.

#

Bruce, why do you keep distorting the GNOME Foundation's position?

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.192.250.149] on December 20, 2007 07:50 AM
The only person who says the GNOME Foundation "has been supporting Microsoft's OOXML format at the expense of ODF" is Bruce Byfield.

The accusation is based on the fact that the GNOME Foundation is represented in ECMA and has participated in a technical review of OOXML.

Please read what the GNOME Foundation actually said, here:
http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/ecma-tc45-statement.html

Highlights from the GNOME Foundation statement:
" The GNOME Foundation is a member of the ODF Alliance, and along with our contributors in the GNOME community, we are passionate supporters of open standards in general. We believe that ODF delivers the best opportunity for industry and government to collaborate on an open document standard, to drive unprecedented innovation, productivity and public transparency.

The GNOME Foundation's support for Jody's participation in TC45-M does not indicate endorsement for, or contribution to, ISO standardisation of the Microsoft Office Open XML formats."

Bruce interprets this to mean the opposite of what it actually says.

#

Re: Bruce, why do you keep distorting the GNOME Foundation's position?

Posted by: Dummy00001 on December 20, 2007 12:04 PM

Did you actually read the article?

GNOME Foundation is political organization - while Icaza is the one who actually write code. If Icaza is all for OOXML, whatever says GNOME Foundation is irrelevant. Because all they do - is talking. PR is their job.

#

Re: Bruce, why do you keep distorting the GNOME Foundation's position?

Posted by: nanday on December 20, 2007 06:49 PM
If you read a little more carefully, Anonymous, you could save yourself a lot of typing. I have *never* said that the GNOME Foundation is supporting OOXML at the expense of ODF -- I have only reported that other people have said so. Just because I mention a position does not mean that I believe it or support it. --Bruce Byfield ("nanday")

#

Re(1): Bruce, why do you keep distorting the GNOME Foundation's position?

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.192.250.149] on December 22, 2007 06:34 AM
"I have *never* said that the GNOME Foundation is supporting OOXML at the expense of ODF -- I have only reported that other people have said so.... --Bruce Byfield"

Oh yeah? You mean that when you wrote "In the recent accusations that the GNOME Foundation has been...", the 'recent accusations' referred to those "other people"? But the "recent accusations" link is to an article by ... somebody called Bruce Byfield. Obviously it can't be you, any similarity in the names must be pure coincidence, right?

#

Re(2): Bruce, why do you keep distorting the GNOME Foundation's position?

Posted by: nanday on December 31, 2007 11:21 PM
You persist in jumping to conclusions without actually reading what is said. Yes, I have reported that other people have accused GNOME, but you will find not find me saying that myself.
- Bruce Byfield

#

Say 'No' to OOXML

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 210.184.37.167] on December 20, 2007 08:01 AM
All people should take this golden opportunity to escape the control from M$.

Say ‘No’ to OOXML!!

#

From the GNOME Foundation statement...

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 129.240.235.122] on December 20, 2007 02:45 PM
"We are deeply concerned that abuse of the standards process is eroding public trust in the value and independence of international standards. Both ODF and OOXML are very heavily influenced by their implementation heritage, neither are likely to deliver the "one true office format", and both communities have — in their own way — played a role in this erosion of trust."

Hold on: OOXML isn't a real standard at all! And although one can criticise, say, IBM for championing ODF, one must recall that the format doesn't even originate from one of their own products: it's from one of their competitors! This is in stark contrast to Microsoft's blatant vote buying and astroturfing in ISO circles. To say that there's been an "erosion of trust" caused by both communities (or rather, one community and Microsoft) is blurring the truth enough that you'd see more of the picture by looking away. It's like saying, "Those guys have been naughty, so I guess everyone must have been equally naughty." Why not just close your eyes and make stuff up?!

Even Novell have been involved in OpenOffice, although one gets the impression that there's some string pulling going on with respect to Microsoft technologies. Stuff that Novell has a stake in has to echo the company strategy, so this means placing ODF and OOXML on some dubious equal footing in order to *not* make Novell's "interoperability solutions" look like the sale of credibility to Microsoft that such things are.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Rambo Tribble on December 20, 2007 05:20 PM
Politics should never be the basis on which standards are accepted or rejected; technical merits should determine such acceptance.

Virtually since its inception, Microsoft has exhibited an appalling disregard for ethics. This would seem to reflect the character of the company's principals and is generally regarded as the reason that Paul Allen never returned to the company after his successful bone-marrow transplant.

Based on their nefarious, political undertakings in the OOXML debacle, Microsoft should be barred from making any presentations to the affected standards body for a finite period; I would say 1 to 5 years would be appropriate. This, of course, would not prevent the submissions through proxies, nor should it. Such an action would create inconvenience to Microsoft and send the message that such transgressions bear a price.

The fact that the standards body in question, the ISO, has not undertaken such action undermines its credibility and, therefore, its relevance.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 10.32.41.169] on December 21, 2007 01:17 AM
Is there a fuller list of changes added to OpenDocument for KOffice that weren't in OOo? Frame-based layout and...

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 222.124.56.1] on December 21, 2007 03:02 PM
If GNOME supports OOXML, I'll switch to KDE or any other desktop manager. F*ck M$.

#

Re: KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.192.250.149] on December 22, 2007 06:54 AM
"If GNOME supports OOXML"


Don't worry, it doesn't. You've been reading too many Bruce Byfield articles. Instead, read what GNOME actually says:
http://www.gnome.org/press/releases/ecma-tc45-statement.html
A sample: "The GNOME Foundation is a member of the ODF Alliance, and along with our contributors in the GNOME community, we are passionate supporters of open standards in general. We believe that ODF delivers the best opportunity for industry and government to collaborate on an open document standard"


Yup, GNOME supports ODF, not OOXML.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 212.93.97.131] on December 23, 2007 11:08 AM
There is need to stop criticize OOXML, but need to open source community to start talks how to start love OOXML and better to merge ODF and OOXML format to create professional future open source file format.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 71.242.42.180] on December 24, 2007 04:23 PM
Bruce is a Micro$oft/Novell shill. Don't listen to him, he spreads nothing but lies. If you want the truth, see: http://www.boycottnovell.com

-- Roy Schestowitz

#

Re: KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: nanday on December 31, 2007 11:29 PM
If I'm a Microsoft / Novell shill, could someone give me the number of human resources? I haven't been paid in months! ;-)

Given that no one from KDE has refuted what I said here, it shouldn't be difficult to evaluate the worth of the claim that the claim that I "spread nothing but lies." I make mistakes, sometimes, but that's another story.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 63.135.47.118] on January 04, 2008 03:58 AM
Politics aside, If Gnome doesn't manage to put something together to match KDE by the time KDE 4 comes up to speed, I think Gnome might find itself too far behind for it to matter what stance it takes.

#

KOffice's stance against OOXML more practical than political, developer says

Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 69.121.254.232] on January 18, 2008 04:15 AM
This worked up over file formats? You guys are ass-clowns and I'm an ass-clown for calling you ass-clowns.


Ass-clowns.

#

This story has been archived. Comments can no longer be posted.



 
Tableless layout Validate XHTML 1.0 Strict Validate CSS Powered by Xaraya